Interview: Terence M. Green
Over a short period at the end of June '01, Canadian author Terence M. Green (TMG) answered our questions via email.

YABR: Your writing style is character driven...exploring personalities, family dynamics and relationships. Does this necessitate writing from strict outlines? Or do you "free-flow" your story, letting it unfold as you go?

TMG: I have no strict outlines. I do, though, have broad outlines. I know what will happen in the beginning, middle and especially, the end. Everything leads toward the end. I don't think free-flow is the term I'd use. Incidents and scenes are used as deemed appropriate throughout--some of which you know far in advance, some of which you dream up or discover as the scene itself takes shape. (Sometimes you even put them in afterward... after a first or second draft.)

YABR: Have any of the unfolding scenes surprised you as you've written them? I look at Martin Radey in, A Witness To Life, and I see a man so blown about by life's ups and downs, that I marvel at how you could have plotted and tightly steered such a character without him developing a life of his own...so to speak.

TMG: Small details of scenes can surprise. I find that things that happen in my everyday life often end up in my fiction at the end of a writing day. People like the refrain: "Where do you get your ideas?" The answer seems to be From Everyday Living and Observing and Reading. What goes on daily, what I'm exposed to, are my "influences," and they become the items and details and scenes that can "surprise" because they were not part of the overall general outline of Beginning, Middle and End that I spoke of earlier. This is the fun of writing. Simply: writing is self-discovery.

YABR: Are you single minded in your writing, concentrating on one story at a time? Or do you have multiple projects, in some shape or form, going at any given moment?

TMG: Pretty single-minded. I usually work only on the given project--usually a novel. When it's completed, I can do a few other things "between" novels. Then it's thinking, planning, working on a new one, even if it's just in my head for a while.

YABR: You mentioned in your interview for Northern Dreamers (N.D.), that your rocky publishing road (imprints, publishing your works, coming and going) had coloured your life philosophy. How so?

TMG: The rocky road I've encountered in publishing has been pretty much a mirror image of the road I've encountered in just about all aspects of life. It's all pretty rocky. I've learned not to expect what is promised until it actually materializes. Don't get too high during the highs and don't get too low during the lows. Try to see the long run, the big picture, the larger perspective. In my upcoming novel ("St. Patrick's Bed") a character says, "Life keeps surprising me. I didn't see it coming. I hardly see anything coming."

YABR. Yet you readily admit in the same article that you get a thrill from seeing your books published. So is the tempering of emotions a constant battle?

TMG: No, not really. I get "thrills" from all sorts of things in life. I love life. I get a thrill when my 7 month old son laughs and smiles. I take a real pride in getting a book "out there." And why not? It was hard work, not unlike gestating a baby for 9 months, then nursing it through its first year. (I've got 3 sons; I know the terrain here too.) I think a book is a Good Thing, and doesn't need much justification. It simply is a Good Thing, well worth doing. And I love the physical product of a book. I don't think I'll ever be a real convert to ebooks. I like to pick them up, feel them, touch the covers, heft them, flip the pages. They have smell, texture, weight. A fine cover can enhance a book as a genuine artifact. I enjoy seeing what visual and textual and sensual characteristics my stories become coated with, because a final Book can be a piece of Art, quite beautiful. For example, I honestly believe my publisher (Forge Books--the mainstream arm of Tor Books, NY) accomplished this with both "Shadow of Ashland" and "A Witness to Life." The size of the books was deliberately (and wisely) chosen, and the cover designs were wonderfully, tastefully conceived. Look at them. Touch them. Turn them over in your hands. Feel the texture of the paper. Have a look at the typeface and overall design. They've become concrete works of art that transcend the original manuscript I delivered. I think Tom Doherty Associates (Tor/Forge) put a lot of quality into their "packaging" of a book, and I consider myself fortunate in this regard that my books haven't ended up "cheesy" (like too many others we've all seen). This is what I mean when I say I can be thrilled with the actual book, and that I look forward to the actual Product the publisher and its designers and art department create.

YABR: Its obvious from your description above that you have a great love of books. I know, from reading some of your other interviews you have mentioned such SF & F luminaries as P.K. Dick and Arthur C. Clarke as authors whose works you've admired. As their styles are grossly disparate, can you tell me what you liked in each of their writings?

TMG: I think the only time I might have mentioned Clarke was in terms of how he was one of my earliest discoveries, around age 12 or 13. He made SF accessible to an adolescent, and I give him his credit there. But he's not really a favorite, and the only way he may have been an influence is in terms of his themes of Transcendence. He was pretty good at the Sense of Wonder, if you think of "Childhood's End," "The City and the Stars," and of course, "The Sentinel" and "The Nine Billion Names of God." The rest of his work I'm not so fond of, and think of it more as a kind of Boys' Invitation to be a Scientist than as significant adult SF. "Rendezvous With Rama," for me, is a book with a curious incident, that goes nowhere, and is never more than the incident. It's certainly not a novel in the sense of anything I'd want to emulate or read again. Dick is another thing entirely. He's a wild man, a true innovator, who lifted SF out of the Clarkian mode and showed whole new possibilities for the genre. "The Man in the High Castle" is a superb novel on all levels. I find many of his novels re-readable and entertaining, and even instructive, on lots of levels. On the whole, though, he wrote too much, too fast. I love his wildness, though, and his "little" characters. If there's a better SF novel than "A Canticle for Leibowitz," I guess I haven't read it.

YABR: Certainly Dick's work is reflective of his careening creative process, the results being at times brilliant, at other times flawed...but rarely boring. As for, A Canticle For Leibowitz, I just couldn't find a rhythm to it and have put it down twice, partially read. What do you think of the current SF & F scene? Any authors catching your attention?

TMG: As for "A Canticle for Leibowitz"--it doesn't need any promotion from me. There are over a million copies in print. Never been out of print, so lots of people like it. I find it witty, ironic, with interesting characters, and like its grand themes. There's nothing else quite like it. Newer writers and work? Take a look at some Canadians. They're as good as anyone. Robert Charles Wilson, Yves Meynard, Robert Sawyer, Andrew Weiner. Fine writers, all doing commendable work. I look for all their new books.

YABR: You also talked about the Canadian inferiority complex in N.D. I have always wondered if this attitude has invaded our publishing industry and spun the "literary only" attitude that seems to reign here...as if we can claim superiority by content. Do you see this as a factor? Or is there another reason? Or do you see the industry in another light?

TMG: There are 30 million people in Canada, 300 million in the USA. Our publishing industry can only exist as either a cottage industry of the American publishing machine, or by targeting a handful of folks who will be genuine international bestsellers (examples: Atwood, Richler, now Alistair MacLeod) and selling them internationally. Mainstream, literary publishing is the field that usually guarantees such international success. Also, it's a matter of tradition, and there is no tradition of genre publishing on any successful scale in Canada. The tradition seems to have been established by Canada's largest publisher, McClelland & Stewart, who are very successful in landing, promoting and selling literary novels by folks such as those mentioned above. They don't know anything about speculative literature, and because they believe the market is too small, they don't publish any. And there is definitely a sense of superiority in publishing mainstream, literary fiction that has a sense of intellectual snobbery about it.

Frankly, I'd like to see somebody try publishing SF&F in Canada and stick with it for a bit. I'm not convinced this other tradition is carved too deeply in any stone, and it might take only a concerted, knowledgeable effort to set a few books and writers on the right tracks and traveling down long rails.

The "inferiority complex" is a factor of the 10 to 1 ratio in population between the U.S. and Canada. People aren't as impressed if you make it in Canada as they are if you make it in the U.S. then "come home." Think of all the Canadian comics, actors, musicians who have had the same experience. Like Leonard Cohen sang: "First you take Manhattan, then you take..."

YABR: But by the same token we have a plethora of small presses pushing the same literary content, yet without the marquee authors to support them. One has to wonder as to their success potential. What do you think a small SF & F press would have to do to achieve a modicum of success in Canada?

TMG: These small Canadian publishers exist only because of the grant system in Canada. They publish some wonderful individual books, but they're all labours of love, break-even endeavors that create a nice national fabric. Point in case: Lesley Choyce of Pottersfield Press published my collection of short stories back in 1987. He loved the book and said he'd publish it if I'd take a nominal advance (read: low) and if he could get the Canada Council Grant he would apply for to publish it (he has to do this with every book). Because that collection was deemed suitably "literary," by the Canada Council, Lesley got the grant, the book was published (1000 copies, which sold out slowly over the next several years). I made no money from it, but that wasn't the point for me. I got the book "out there," which was my aim. And it too is a beautiful "product," a beautiful trade paperback with a stunning cover by a Nova Scotia artist. So I'm all in favour of the small Canadian presses, but they're hampered by the realities of population and the need for grants, decided by panels that looks for "literary" quality in order to justify spending the public's money. This is the dilemma faced by someone wanting to publish SF&F from a small press. It too has to be a labour of love, and those involved will need to work with the grant system. These are shackles not felt the same way south of the border where there is 10 times the population (Heck, there are 30 million people in California alone, 30 million in New York State... and they don't have to contend with the realities of shipping and selling spread over 3000 miles, as in Canada).

YABR: Excuse my naiveté...but as much as money is a primary motivating factor (justifiably) in an author's marketing of his/her novel, could not a small Canadian press procure wider than national rights to a novel and therefore make additional money marketing it outside our borders? I mean, with the resident talent we have here in Canada within SF & F...many who have an international profile...could not a Canadian imprint make a reasonable return upon its investment?

TMG: A small press Canadian publisher just couldn't afford to procure a front line SF/F novel. I can't think of a writer who'd offer such a publisher his/her book first. It's not just the money (which they couldn't match, trust me), it's also the fact that Canadian publishers, large or small, can't get significant distribution in other countries. Buying "world rights" doesn't work for a Canadian publisher. The other countries don't cooperate, from what I've seen. They don't have to. They can offer more and distribute better. Canadian publishers, large or small, end up with Canadian Rights Only, and it's not usually seen as enough of a market to recoup their investment. I had a novel ("Children of the Rainbow," 1992), which I sold to McClelland & Stewart, Canada's largest publisher. They bought Canadian Rights Only. There was no system where they could get an American publisher to distribute their Canadian books. They hoped that I could sell American Rights separately, and that the sales in the U.S. would then spur interest in the book in Canada, thus upping its sales here. It didn't happen, because American publishers want North American Rights, seeing Canada as 10 % of their sales (and often higher when they have a Canadian author!). It was a Catch-22. Add to this the fact that there is no mass market Canadian publishing of consequence, and they just couldn't make money on it, so their experiment ended with that book, and, much to my bemusement (I've heard that disillusionment is often enlightenment) I went and found an American publisher, got fine distribution all over the U.S., and came back into Canada that way. And that's what's happening. Believe me, if it could be done, it would have by been by now. Tesseracts Books does a nice job, Pottersfield Press does a nice job, but they're labours of love, without the budget to play with the boys from New York. Even Doubleday Canada tried to get Canadian Rights from at least one well known Canadian SF writer, but couldn't compete in the final tally. If it was gonna happen, it probably would've by now. Having said that, I hope I'm wrong, and some shrewd genius is creative enough to find a way out of the Catch-22 I've tried to describe. It'd be terrific.

YABR: What you describe sounds, well, depressing. But I guess as you say, its business. Are you familiar with, Edge Science Fiction and Fantasy Publishing, in Calgary AB? They seem to be trying to break the mold here in Canada, though strictly within hardcover and trade paperback format.

TMG: I know who they are. I've seen their web site. Good luck to 'em! The more the merrier! But I'm sure their zeal and idealism isn't clouded by a lack of knowledge of the scene. I'm sure they know what they're up against.

YABR: You've also made mention about the caliber of reviewers who handle SF & F reviews being less than ideal, due, perhaps, to their inexperience within the genre. Have you found any improvement within this field? Or are the publications who review said material, sorely "dropping the ball" still?

TMG: I think you've got to have read widely in both mainstream literature and SF&F to know exactly what you're reading. It's not enough to say you "like" something or "dislike" it. You've got to put it into a larger context and also the context of what the book is trying to do. Then the reader of the review can decide if he/she might "like" or "dislike" a book. From what I've seen, there aren't many Canadian SF&F reviewers out there who have read widely enough in mainstream lit, and not enough mainstream reviewers who have read widely enough in SF&F, and vice versa. Off the top of my head, John Robert Colombo of Toronto and Douglas Barbour of University of Alberta and Ian Lancashire of University of Toronto are three who seem to know the lay of all the lands.

I like to think you and your review site can have a positive effect in this area too! It's sorely needed.

YABR: Thank you for the encouragement...one can only try. As your more recent work walks a fine line between fantasy and the more "accepted" category of magic realism, do you worry that perhaps your stories may fall into a void of being not SF & F enough for some of us, yet not mainstream enough for others?

TMG: I don't really "worry" about it, because there's nothing much I can really do about it. But you are right: it is already happening. Writers who are very successful commercially tend to be ones who can be easily slotted. "This is science fiction. This is a mystery. This is literary mainstream. This is fantasy." We love labels. Like going to the supermarket. This is the American Way of selling books, and so far, I think there's been a bit of a struggle for my publisher to find my audience, because I'm not easily slotted, they do fall a bit between the cracks. To their credit, though, they've stuck with me and my books. Faith is the first step. I'd like a wider readership. I think my books will entertain and provoke a wide range of readers if they'd just give them a chance. Both "Shadow of Ashland" and "A Witness to Life" were acknowledged within the field by being nominated for a World Fantasy Award as Best Novel in their respective years. And my new one (September, 2001), "St. Patrick's Bed," has received a Toronto Arts Council Grant, so there's some recognition in the mainstream already. Now if we could just put 2 and 2 together... Like the guy in the beer commercial says: "I Am Canadian." I'm different from those 300 million south of us in myriad small ways. My books need to be "discovered" by both groups. I write for both groups. They'd both like them. I believe this.

YABR: Certainly few authors cross categorization successfully, especially when SF & F comes into play. One noticeable exception is Dan Simmons, who has won awards both within SF & F and Horror, and now is gaining acceptance within the Suspense genre. As your recent offerings straddle the Fantasy / Literary fields, would you feel trepidation if you felt driven to write, say, a murder/mystery? Would you consider, as many authors have done, assuming a pen name for such a venture?

TMG: I wouldn't feel any trepidation about writing anything. I'd go into it with my eyes wide open, expecting nothing. I write what I want now, and when it does well I am pleasantly surprised, and I consider any and everything after the initial sale of the novel to the publisher to be a bonus. I don't write for the money. I write for the book. The money, if there is any, is the bonus. The readers are the real reward. To get a book published, I might consider a pen name. No shame in that. The book is more important than my name, and I am at heart a pragmatist when it comes to the realities of publishing. It is, as I've been pointing out all along, a business, determined at the publishing end by the bottom line.

YABR: You'll be appearing at Can-Con 2001 in August 2001. What does this sort of venture bring to Terence M. Green? Are you comfortable dealing with "fans"?

TMG: Fans are fine. Fans are readers and writers need readers. A good convention is a meaningful way to interest people in one's books, and enjoy oneself at the same time. I usually try to attend the World Fantasy Convention--it's a favorite (made it to WFCs in 84, 85, 86, 87, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98) and planning on being at WFC 2001 in Montreal. Should be a strong Canadian contingent. Last time it was in Canada was Ottawa in 84. And then there's the Worldcon, coming here to Toronto in 2003. Should be a great venue for Canadians. Conventions can be like business conventions too, in that I get to meet up with fellow writers, editors, etc. This is valuable professionally, but also good fellowship.

YABR: You've mentioned your next novel, St. Patrick's Bed (Sept 2001). What are you working on now?

TMG: I'm making notes for a new novel set in the present day, about a man who discovers all the lives he might have lived--my blend of magical realism, fantasy and mainstream. It's going more slowly than my past few books, simply because we now have a seven month old in our lives. Daniel was born in November,
2000, and is terrific, but right now he's a full time proposition, as are all babies. I'm on paternity leave! So be patient. I'll be back!

YABR: Lastly, what advice would you offer want-to-be authors?

TMG: Get a job. Don't count on making a living from your writing, and you'll be fine. If your writing eventually starts to produce reasonable money, then is the time to ease out of the job and into writing more fully (part-time employment, leaves-of-absence, etc.). This is an axiom that applies to almost all the Arts: writing, music, acting, painting, you name it. You're in it for the love of it, because it's your passion. You'd do it even if it didn't make money.

And read. Read widely. Read everything. If you're not addicted to print, then you're probably not a writer at heart, you'd just like to be able to call yourself a writer. A writer knows he/she is a writer, the way a piano player or baseball player knows he/she is that. You've always been fascinated by the field. It chooses you.

You do the best work you can, consistently, for as long as you can, and you up your odds of having the success you'd like to have. That's about all you can do.

Books. Reading. Writing. It's a life, not a job.